Is the Manosphere Devolving into a Mass of Followers and Do-Nothing Complainers


It’s thumbs down no matter what you do for some men

It’s hard to break the mold.

Even a segment of the Internet dedicated to waking men up en masse is now populated by many who will do just about anything to defend the status quo. It seems complaining and hurling insults online, putting blind faith in politicians, or putting a man’s testes in a legal vice grip (marry ‘er and flawlessly game ‘er) and hoping for the best are the only accepted solutions.

Anything else, anything original, any risk-taking is off the table. Once again, Stefan Molyneux’s Human Farm analogy applies:

If you can get the cows to attack each other whenever anybody brings up the reality of their situation, then you don’t have to spend nearly as much controlling them directly.

This is exactly what happens whenever outside the box thinking occurs. And it could be the reason nothing will ever change. Because many men want to keep doing the same thing. Not having a security blanket – even if that blanket is a mirage – terrifies them.


Molyneux’s metaphor for human cattle attacking those who are bold and different works quite well

Cows Attacking Each Other

Each time a man steps out of line, there will a small but vocal brigade of screeching, online hooligans wielding figurative pitchforks to try and force him back into the fold. Witness, a humble write up encouraging men to seek their own definition of freedom and to develop a passion for living. There was also a personal story about how the author was forging his own destiny, free of the corporate plantation. Attacks generally fell into these categories.

  • You are not “being responsible” so you need to “man up” and settle for whatever the system gives you.
  • You are not “being a man” by refusing to put up with the shabby treatment society gives you.
  • A misplaced sense of “honor” is more important than realizing you’ve been fucked on a deal in which the terms were part of a bait and switch job, i.e. the vaunted but now worthless education you sacrificed for, so lube it up and continue bending over the barrel. Do not renege on the contract using legal loopholes the system itself created because “real men” let themselves be taken advantage of.
  • You are not following the prescribed life plan, therefore you are a loser for doing what you want rather than what the system commands you to do.
  • I am jealous because you are doing the things I only dream of, so I’m going to try and trip you up with endless vivisection and criticism.
  • How dare you not wife up an Anglobitch, pucker your asshole and hope for the best as you place yourself into a subservient legal and social role.
  • You are not practicing tight enough game. I am a master of game, and if you were a “real man” like me, you’d be doing what I’m doing. (This is a recurring theme.)

The overall message is one that communicates absolute horror that a man has stepped out of line, said “Fuck you!” to the system, and has formulated a concrete plan to not only live abroad at least half the time, but to pay for it with his own labor. All while following the rules of the very system he has eschewed, but using them to his advantage rather than someone else’s.

This reply I posted to one of the commenters also sums up the Beta-tude of a small but vocal minority:

When you make your own definition of getting ahead you have a thousand trolls telling you you’re doing it wrong, get back to the grind, wife up an Anglobitch, practice perfect Game to keep her so you don’t get frivorce raped, and watch her age.

Somehow that’s supposed to save the West.

Fuck that mess.

If all my plans fail, the worst that could happen is going back to a corporate job in the media. An increasingly unstable one with no real future, one might add.

What are we even doing if are intolerant of men who buck the system and try to break free of a design to exploit them? Just airing out grievances and hurling insults online? That wasn’t good enough for this author. It was time to turn the knowledge we’ve gleaned in the manosphere into action.


“I’ll show that guy, he better start following the program even though we complain about it constantly…”

Cows Attacking Each Other, Part II

Detail 5 ways Anglo women have turned themselves into sex objects through feminism and a rampage ensues in which ad hominems were prevalent, and the White Knight brigade comes out in full force to defend the honor of the warpigs they supposedly want to reform. Attacks generally fell into these categories:

  • Go to Wyoming, that’s where the secret stash of quality Anglo women is.
  • Go to Utah, that’s where the secret stash of “good Mormon girls” are.
  • It’s your fault you found yourself in the middle of a gynocentric culture, so “man up” and “do what’s right” by strapping yourself in for 40+ years of corporate bondage, put a ring on it and hope for the best.
  • Our women aren’t that bad. (These guys only say this because they’ve never experienced true femininity.)
  • Your game isn’t tight enough. Become a 0.01% gamer and you might have a chance at surviving your subordinate legal and social role in a marriage. (Recurring theme.)

Oh, and never mind this mere sampling of guys who played the marriage game and lost enormous sums of money:

  • Mel Gibson’s divorce from Robyn Moore Gibson; cost estimated at $425 million
  • Michael Jordan’s divorce from Juanita Jordan, cost $168 million
  • Steven Spielberg’s divorce from Amy Irving; cost estimated at $100 million
  • Ted Danson’s divorce from Casey Coats; cost estimated at $30 million
  • Donald Trump’s divorce from Ivana Trump; cost estimated at $25 million

Not to mention all the countless men you no doubt know who were put through the frivorce meat grinder. I have many personal stories of good men who were frivorce raped by their wives after marriages ranging in length from only a few years to two or three decades. I’d enjoy nothing more than for the supposed Alphas to go tell these guys they weren’t manly enough to keep their wives and didn’t practice game correctly. No doubt, they’d get their lights punched out.

Apparently, there are also some manosphere commentators who are more Alpha than Donald Trump, Micheal Jordan, and Mel Gibson. They’ll be able to thread the needle and keep their wives while these lesser men could not. Hmmm.

It doesn’t take a lot of analysis to realize none of this makes any fucking sense. It’s just a bunch of guys grasping at straws and performing the most incredible mental acrobatics to stay exactly where they are in life.

Short of a full press of the cultural reset button, nothing is going to change.


Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity

The ‘Do Nothing and Everything Will Be Fine’ Brigade

Stop with those dangerous thoughts and fall in line!

That sums up the “Do Nothing and Everything Will Be Fine” brigade, who are intolerant of independent lifestyles lived outside The Matrix.

The general consensus among this vocal group is to keep doing what men have been doing, but to expect a different result this time. That’s the very definition of insanity. What has the commentary taught me? That at times, we in the manosphere, the ones who put our asses on the line seem to be living out this scene from The Matrix:

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

It would seem that’s the case with a certain segment of the manosphere. This is exactly what type of commentary follows many articles, not just my articles – men fighting to protect the system, no matter how rotten it might be. Men trying to tear others down for refusing to play along with a system that consumes a man and doles out little material rewards in exchange for all the hours of his life.

This sacrifice might have been acceptable in a time when a man was guaranteed a loyal wife and family by society, but we aren’t playing that game anymore. Feminism and liberalism changed all that. They were collectively Pandora’s Box and there’s no real way to put the genie back in the bottle. We are just playing out the string until it all comes down.

There are those of us who refuse to keep doing what men have been doing. We will be the lightning rods for criticism from the timid, who seek the comfort and security having a subordinate role in society provides them.

Rather than chasing the carrot on a stick retirement plan, since I was so burned by the carrot on a stick rubber stamp plan, I will live the words of Errol Flynn: Any man who dies with more than $10,000 to his name is a failure. I’m going to live while I’m alive. Not pickle myself and hope I’ll still be crispy at age 65. Or 67. Or 70. Or whatever the retirement age is in the near future.

Let the attacks commence. I’m not going to change my message.

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  • The guys on ROK who talk about how great their American women are have one thing in common: they’re all old. As in, they’re all in their mid-forties or fifties. Put me back in 1985 as who I am right now—a successful, in shape, airline pilot—and I could wife-up a stunning smoke-show white woman with sterling morals, too. I imagine that you, as a successful on-air media personality, would’ve been able to pull off the same thing, Rel. These men got to play the game back when it was winnable—back when eating grass off the plantation would still give you a full belly. If you possessed even a modicum of common sense in the decision making department, a good life was almost a certainty back then. Not just with women, but in general.

    Men who grew up in that environment can’t seem to understand how women back then were thin, didn’t get covered in tattoos, didn’t have Tinder, Facebook, Snapchat, OKCupid, iPhones, and everything else that adds fuel to the American female shit-flame. They never had to look at the Facebook page of a woman they were dating, see over 300 friends, then see that over 100 of those friends are men, and then have to ponder about how many of those men have fucked her, are trying to fuck her, or—unbeknownst to you—will fuck her. That sort of thing is incomprehensible to these men because they never had to live through such a mess, and that’s just one small example. This shit is a nightmare, and this coming from a guy who, for the most part, has it GOOD in this society. We are the first men IN HISTORY to be faced with culturally lauded moral turpitude and advanced technology coalescing to form some sort of monolithic female who’s hellbent on the destruction of our finances, our minds, our souls, and, ultimately, civilization in its entirety—and we’re supposed to marry and breed with these God damn things? Fuck off, pops.

    For me, it’s like this: I don’t want to hear anything out of guys who had the game on easy mode by virtue of being born in a better era. My dad has been with my mom for well over 30 years. I love him dearly—he’s my best friend and probably the only human being in the world who truly, 100 percent, has my back. But you know what? I don’t want to hear jackshit from him about dating and women, and he’s observant enough to realize I’m dealing with a whole different animal; a new, constantly changing, feral, unforgiving and vicious animal. He says nothing, because he has nothing to say. Opinionated old farts need to do the same and recognize they were bumper bowling—unless you’re a God damn retard, you have no excuses for not knocking down a few pins. There are no men under 40, except for the very few who lucked out via religion or tying down their high school sweetheart, who have good things to say about present day American women.

    Bottom line: in my opinion, you’re on the right path, Rel. I’m working my ass off so I can get the hell out of here, too. There are plenty of men out there who would gladly marry many of the American women I’ve throat-fucked, plastered with cum, and nailed in the ass—women who, had I wanted to, I could have married myself. But I’ve been beyond these borders, and I know there’s much better out there. It’s not an opinion that foreign women are better, it is an incontrovertible fact. Let the other guys save the world. I’m going to shoot for happiness, or, at least at a minimum, contentedness. That’s all I’ve ever wanted, and I know I’ll get it eventually.


    • +AV8RROK I’m 62, frivorce raped at 57, and awakened at 60. The ex was 18 years my junior and knew exactly what she was doing, especially with technology. It was beautifully planned and nearly flawlessly executed. I have to give her props for that.

      I cannot disagree with your post. Baby boomer men with age appropriate wives were divorce raped the old fashion way. We also fall into two distinct groups – those few that have been force fed through the modern legal sausage grinder and the vast majority who haven’t. Those who haven’t still hold to the illusions they were taught as children. Prior to my ordeal and subsequent awakening I was in that blissfully ignorant group.

      Nowadays, young men face false rape claims, false DV claims, trial by social media, denial of due process, princesses with both an entitlement and victimhood mentality, blatant discrimination at school and work, the nightmare list goes on and on. I get your point.

      But I will say in defense of us geezers that for those of us who have been awakened we can offer insights that can only be garnered through a lifetime of experience and the blessing of a rapidly fading libido that has cleared our minds and allowed calm thoughtful deliberation to rule the dwindling years of our twilight.

      So, my awakened young friend, please don’t automatically write us all off. And be sure to count yourself as blessed for you have learned early in life the hard truths. Oh, how I wish I had known as a young man – truely my only regret in life.

      Good luck and Cheers.


    • “It’s not an opinion that foreign women are better, it is an incontrovertible fact.”

      Yeah, just the sheer numbers. Most trad-con dopes will then come back at you with the “Oh, you think they’re unicorns eh?”
      No. They’re not unicorns. They don’t have to be anywhere near a unicorn to be leagues better than the USA. They can have ALL KINDS of flaws and still be WAY better. The physicality alone makes it a blowout.

      The other comeback from some of my passport-less friends is; “Whattya mean there are no women in America? Just last week I saw a girl at the mall with a great body. Don’t know whatchyer talking about.”

      What the dope doesn’t know is that he gave it away. If he even bothers to remember that one girl with a body from 10 days ago then that proves the point. A Saturday in Rio; walking three beaches, walking three malls and clubhop (okay, a lot of walking, I know) but my point is that in that one day you would see between 5000 and 10,000 bangable women. Go out for the day in the US and it’s going to be about a 50-100, if you cover three malls, a music festival and clubhop. The no-passport dope will come home with hearts in his eyes over the 75 attractive women he saw in a pool of 20,000 people.


    • Relampago Furioso

      Glad you dropped by, av8rrok.

      This subject would actually make an interesting article. The generation gap no doubt comes into play, as I can see the slide from my generation to the present one. My parents’ generation was an entirely different ballgame culturally.

      I will say the happiest moments of my life are spent outside the States. There has to be more to that feeling than it just being an illusion as I’ve been abroad for the better part of the last 2 years, and am more resolute than I’ve ever been about not returning “home” for anything except money.


  • @PaulMeithof,

    Good post. The amount of blowback on ROK for suggesting that life is better elsewhere was ludicrous. Is it the manosphere or not? MGTOW (in whatever form) has gotten all kinds of shit thrown at it and it’s a case of the manosphere cancelling itself out. Heartiste also has turned into a shitshow of guys falling all over each other to see who can lay flatter in front of their white goddesses (again), just like before in their bluest of blue pill days, they’re back to the pedestal, just this time they rationalize it with edgy white nationalism.

    There are redpillers who have the opportunity to leave and those without that opportunity. The guys stuck on the plantation likely just simply don’t want to hear about the kind of tail out in the world, not to mention the freedom, the adventure, whatever you want to call it. So they label it as ‘third world dumpster diving’ and then pound their chest about how they’re alpha enough to pull American women (who are just the best in the world and everyone knows that) It’s laughable and it’s the kind of disconnect that you can’t waste your time on. I call them ‘alpha signallers’ and trying to engage them is as pointless as trying to have a dialogue with a trad-con or a feminist. I’m working very hard on being done with the war aspect of going redpill MGTOW. It’s an energy drain and the feedback loops can end up damaging your life. It’s hard to realize that because you’re RIGHT, so you never think to call yourself out when you’re right, but time is wasted, right or not. Like a guy up above said, Thailand is already flooded so let guys find it on their own, you know?

    I’m more interested in maximizing my own happiness. Maximizing the time I spend on things that interest me. I’m done trying to be Paul Revere about it all. EVEN in the manosphere, 85% of the guys are STILL blue pill, even though they don’t know it. Go to ROK and read posts by Ghost of Jefferson as he raves about the women in Wyoming (just like the original post mentions). You can’t help these idiots. No more Paul Revere. Now it’s my time. Leave the guys to be on their own. TNMM does a good job of getting past the muck of the red/blue pill wars and moves on to the next stages of development and freedom.


    • Ha ha I see you called out Ghost of Jefferson. What is with that guy? I agree 100% with paulmeithof’s comments below as well.

      I agree that it’s self justification. It’s like a woman showing off their diamond ring or someone showing off their house or even their kids. The cost of these things is waaaaaay above their intrinsic value because they are negative cash flow ‘investments.’ There may be emotional dividends, but to sell a house, for example, you need to hope to convince the next sucker it’s worth the price. No thanks, I don’t want to buy your house in Detroit !

      Kids weren’t always negative cash flow. On a farm 100 years ago, even a five year old daughter could be valuable in feeding the chickens or pigs or helping mom bake the bread, giving Dad some time to sleep in or do other things. But with mandatory education of all children, kids have been liabilities for a long, long time now.

      As Tom Leykis and Helen Smith argued, there is no benefit to men in modern-day Western marriage.


      • Signor Farfalla

        Ghost of Jefferson and lolknee and some others are simply looking at every message thread, every day for years on end for the opportunity to alpha signal. It’s turned into a joke. Blaximus and the rest of those old fucks on the Rational Male are the same way. Crowing about how they have their 58 year old wife in line. Like that’s the great prize in life; decades of marriage to a woman who only gave you a boner in the first six months. Yippee

        Saying that you’re done with fat, pussyhat wearing American nightmares is just like red meat to them because they get to shrug and say, “I haven’t had any problems with American women dude. I must be better than you, I guess. Go motorcycling through North Dakota. Pussy everywhere. Every truckstop is just filled with ass bro. ” Remember that these are guys already in the manosphere, learning redpill principles who still act like this. It makes you realize how hopeless the other 99.9% of males are.


  • Free food! Free housing! Free healthcare! Free education! Free childcare! Free drugs! Gimme and gimme now, CisHet white boy!

    If you’re black, brown, gay, lesbian, transgendered, divorcing-gold-digger, old, illegal-alien, stupid, feminist or fat – YOU’RE IN! CisHet white boy gonna pay, bishes! It’s all the white man’s fault! Get yo free shite right here on the minority victim-train! Woo-Woo!

    Liked by 1 person

  • I get why some guys would lash out at the ideas presented on this site. They’re heretical to daily life in the West. I’m sure many resonate with what is said in the articles to some extent or other, but very few will actually do anything about their own situation. What I don’t get is why the fuck guys who aren’t for leaving the matrix would be here in the first place. There has to be other places for those guys to go. Maybe “” or something. Whatever.

    I’m personally very inspired by your words. And I think your decision to bring in Jack Ronin was terrific.
    Thank you!


  • I think the main problem is that most men in America, even the more red-pilled ones, think that the country can still be saved. They do not see the truth right in front of their faces, that America in its current form is toast. It’s only a matter of time. America was founded on flawed premises, the Puritan worship of women being chief among them. The country is simply reaping what it sowed hundreds of years ago.


  • hey relampago I enjoy you’re articles so much so I even translate parts of it for my Italian RP friends. Keep up the good work and do not care about the haters. It also means you’re doin’ it right. Truth is harsh and hurts sometimes.


  • Eduardo the Magnificent

    Many in the manosphere are wrapped up in false selves:

    False selves are like infections or cancer; they just want to grow and spread and thrive at all costs. False self leads to more false self. False selves are perpetually creating their own demand……
    ….Your despicable false self has ensured it’s own survival and growth by putting you in an environment where everything, from your social circle to your financial livelihood to your life companionship, appeared to depend on you continuing to be a doormat and a victim. You feel so invested in this role now that if you did try to change and become more confident and assertive you would risk losing everything you have, and even though what you have is shitty, you may feel that keeping something shitty is better than having nothing.


  • Keep doing it your way Relampago. Sheeple will screech but who cares? You are doing good things for any man who would listen. Personally, I’m using your Minimalism and Money template to unshackle myself completely and live life to the fullest. Yes, I’ve encountered some resistance from the matrix. Yes, I’ve been shit tested by women and manginas who notice I’m not following their plan. The grin on my face keeps getting bigger.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Betas will always look for safety and securities and thats what the matrix offers them. Let them live like this. Or you want even more competition in Thailand? There are already too many white dudes around.


  • As usual, TNMM, you are right. But as the first law of second lieutenants states; “Being right only makes it worse”.

    Humans are a social and herd species just like ants, bees, and wildebeest. All such species have a common attribute instilled by their DNA. Their species collective DNA is only concerned with its own survival by passing itself on to the next generation via the females and its programming demands individual compliance with behaviors that benefit the collective as the best way for successfully achieving that goal.

    The herd (or as we call it, the hivemind) will always eject a physical outlier, and for humans a mental heretic, from the herd for the simple reason that a physical abnormality (bad DNA) or “bad thinking” is perceived by the herd as a threat to its collective DNA survival strategy. An individual member of the herd means nothing, the herd itself means everything. This is what DNA demands.

    All species eject abnormal DNA or behavior from the group by driving it out or killing it. Humans are no different. However, there is one exception to this law of DNA. That exception arises when the herd is in extreme danger of collapse. In such conditions a new queen bee or ant or male stallion will arise to lead the herd on a dangerous trek away from the known and comfortable, but threatening, towards greener pastures that promise a better chance for DNA survival. This is exactly what Splengler’s civilization model predicts – the herd will accept a Caesar to save itself.

    What do you think Trump is? The white ethnic Eurocentric working class has awakened to the fact that their herd is in extreme danger of collapse and have cried out for a Caesar to save them, exactly as Spengler predicts. It must be remembered that the rise of a Caesar is a sign of the beginning of the end.

    But the herd is still the herd. It will accept an outlier Caesar in times of crisis to lead it but will still enforce the hivemind collective rules on outlier, heretic, non-leader individuals.

    The attacks you describe in your article are predictable and will not cease. Too much of the manosphere remains too heavily invested in the DNA driven herd imperative to challenge it, for in doing so it would be challenging it’s own ego which its ego will not allow. Why do you think the magnificent Barbarossa entitled his works “The Shedding of the Ego”?

    So, the western manosphere will choose their own collapse over a challenge to the herd. The western femherd doesn’t care for the females always survive and they know it.

    And this, my erudite friend, is why western civilization will collapse and there is not a damn thing an individual man can do about it, even Trump. Just look at how vehemently the herd is attacking him. His base of white Eurocentric working class will continue to shrink and demographics as destiny will again be proven correct. Trump is merely a speed bump.

    So, the only rational choice for an individual western man is the choice you have made – his own survival living his life on his own terms and ejecting the herd hivemind from his life. In essence, the very definition of MGTOW.

    The western manosphere is doomed. The attacks you receive from the manosphere are nothing more than the pleadings, masquerading as bravado, of a prey animal for rescue from the predators on its heels that it knows will soon overtake it.

    If the manosphere would unite, it could easily defeat its tormentors. But DNA has a trump (pardon the pun) card to keep that from happening – male tournament reproductive selection. The manosphere can’t help it any more than it can help breathing. It will sell out the group for the opportunity to reproduce. As always, DNA wins the day.

    It is only going to get worse in the West. Prepare yourself, as TNMM has, or you will suffer the consequences.


    Liked by 1 person

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